Thanks, I've started a test server 'S2 GTR' you are welcome to use. It allows GTR cars and you can select the track.

Quote from tankslacno :

Scawen, is it confirmed that in the official version, it'll be possible to add up to 32 AI's per player on multiplayer and that maximum number of packets sent per second by each car will be 12 instead of 6?

I think that is true but I can't remember many test results about the 32 (ai + real) car per connection. It's possible it could change if testing reveals it to be a bad idea. But if it's all working well then there shouldn't be a problem. I think 12 pps is here to stay and don't really want to get back into that stuff now.

I believe online prediction and smoothness is improved a lot, mainly by:

- sending more position packets when needed
- sending tyre deflection in the position packet
- more accurate and frequent temperature & wear updates
- better initialisation of steering after each position packet

Hello racers,

In the new incompatible test patch U19 I've tried to improve the balance between the FZR, FXR and XRR with the new configuration selected. Although the new configs were designed with drift and rallycross in mind, it also creates a new hard track racing category, like the existing GTR class but with a bit less grip due to the narrower tyres. XR GTR also has an H-pattern shifter in the new configuration.

I've tried to keep the cars balanced, in terms of their own handling and hopefully between cars too. It's not possible within a few days to get a race category perfectly balanced, because setups evolve over time. Race directors can adjust performance using ballast. But I'd be interested to know how they compare.

I'm trying to get this tested and finalised as soon as possible so I can get back to the development version.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/95016

Quote from Degats :

For some reason, I'm only ever seeing Config == 0 in NPL

Thanks. I had only entered it in the 'request join' version of IS_NPL.
It's now fixed and I've uploaded U18 DCon with the fix.

Quote from Pasci :

Hm... I tried yesterday evening the U18 version. I noticed that the hostname input for the target host no longer works. I needed to enter an ip address again. Is the new code accidentally not in this version? That worked great before (incl. U15; i didn't have time to test u16).

I don't know why that would be. In a quick test here it did work. I only tested on my local computer, joining a local server on the same computer. I was able to enter "localhost" or my network computer name and it did join.

EDIT: Was there any kind of message, in the chat or a dialog, when you click GO?

Last edited by Scawen, Sat 6 Feb 2021, 20:23.

WARNING: THIS IS A TEST

THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW TYRE PHYSICS OR THE NEW GRAPHICS SYSTEM

PLEASE TEST BEFORE YOU POST


THIS PATCH IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH VERSION U


Hello Racers,

Here is a new test patch: 0.6U25

The changes are listed below.

0.6U25 is NOT COMPATIBLE with 0.6U

- You can NOT connect online with 0.6U
- You CAN play replays from 0.6U

Please back up or rename your LFS.exe from version U so you can revert to it if necessary.


Changes from 0.6U23 to 0.6U25: COMPATIBLE WITH U23

Steering:

Road cars now have 900 degrees steering range with default setup
XF and UF GTR have 540 degrees steering range with default setup
Updated and fixed steering animations to cover new steering range
Removed option "Move view with animation" which had little effect
FIX for new bug: Steering wheel could turn too far with some setups
FIX for new bug: Switching setups while driver visible could crash

Training:

FIX: AI changed to low fuel load if overtaking lesson restarted
FIX: AI skill / admin commands no longer processed during training
FIX: Training lesson did not end if replay saving was interrupted
FIX: Refuelling depended on refuelling allowed in single player
FIX: Logo was visible under title during lesson replay

Misc:

Removed debug message "Replay name : temp_mpr"
Saving replay name now shown beside option in Options - Game
Blocked messages remain blocked when returning from game to lobby
Command /block [0/1/2] : block user messages (like the minus key)

InSim:

IS_RES: TTime in qualifying now indicates time in session
IS_RES: PLID is now zero if the player has left the race

OutSim:

OutSim packet is documented in docs\OutSimPack.txt
Added steering torque as additional field in new OutSim
All data options can be switched on with OutSim Opts 1ff

Translations:

More updated translations. Thank you very much, translators.


Changes from 0.6U16 to 0.6U23: NEW INCOMPATIBLE VERSION

Multiplayer prediction:

Position packet now includes contact patch offset for each tyre
Wear and temperature packet is more frequent and more accurate

Pit stops:

Command /canrefuel (no/yes) to set refuelling allowed in pit stops
Damage repair not required when changing tyre pressure or compound

New ALTERNATE setup configuration for the five GTR cars:

Selecting the new config in XRR/FZR/FXR decreases tyre width a bit
With alternate config, narrower tyres may be selected (adds offset)
Also ROAD_SUPER, ROAD_NORMAL, HYBRID, KNOBBLY tyres may be selected
High "Maximum Lock" is possible in XRR/FZR with narrower wheels
XR GTR in ALTERNATE config has H-pattern shifter

Tyre choices and steering lock:

XFR and UFR maximum steering lock increased to 30 degrees
LX4 and LX6 maximum steering lock increased to 45 degrees
Single seater racing cars can now use ROAD_SUPER tyres
Steering wheel turn amount changes with maximum lock

New handling for 'CAR.lfs' and 'shift_type.lfs' scripts:

LFS runs 'road.lfs' / 'sequential.lfs' / 'paddle.lfs' directly
(previously these scripts were called from a CAR.lfs script)
This is done after loading a car and immediately before CAR.lfs
Commands to run these scripts from another script are ignored

Controls:

Handbrake strength is now separately adjustable

Graphics:

Avoid upward lighting related to ground colour in internal views

InSim:

Config byte added to IS_NPL packet indicates setup configuration
IS_CPP Pos is now relative to "Centre view" not the user setting
IS_NPL RWAdj / FWAdj indicate rear / front tyre width reduction
New bytes set if /showfuel=yes: IS_NPL Fuel / IS_PIT FuelAdd
IS_SPX and IS_LAP new byte Fuel200 indicates fuel remaining

Interface:

Tyre size displayed in Tyres tab in Garage
Brakes / TC tab in garage separated into two columns (e.g. FZ50)
FIX: Heat in garage car's tyres was not updated when tyre changed
Virtual steering gauge hidden if live settings or pit instructions
New fuel options can be filtered and are visible on selected host
When alternative config is selected F12 display shows tyre size
/press and /shift commands now support 'minus' as parameter
minus key (block messages) now works in free view mode

Misc:

Maximum number of layout objects increased to 2400
You can now add up to 32 local drivers (real + ai) in multiplayer
Restored code preventing 2 cars joining autocross within 3 seconds
FIX: Wrong warning "Road tyres on rallycross track" in hotlapping

Translation update for help.txt:

host_cars - max is now 32
guest_cars - max is now 32
max_packs - max is now 12
mip_bias - default settings now -0.5 / -1.0 / -1.5 / -2.0

Translations:

Many updated translations. Thank you, translators.


Changes from 0.6U to 0.6U16: FINAL VERSION COMPATIBLE WITH 0.6U

Interface:

Pit speed limit is shown when car speed is below 2/3 of limit
Yellow and blue flags now alternate with RCM or penalty message
Prevented auto-repeat on block message and light switching keys
Command /spectv no - prevent selecting TV camera on spectate
Momentary flick to rear view after SHIFT+R is now avoided
Avoided downshift after pressing SHIFT+X to exit free view
In fact any 'key held' function after SHIFT+key is prevented

F12 pit instructions:

Pressure change with new tyre no longer counts as SETUP CHANGES
A new 'cancel' option beside the 'setup changes requested' line
Settings that will be adjusted are now shown in light red colour
FIX: rear tyre pressure was limited by front tyre pressure limits
FIX: symmetric pressure/camber request remained after pit stop

Multiplayer:

Maximum packets per second (/pps) has been increased to 12
Rolling resistance included in catch-up phase of prediction
Reduced steering glitch each time a position packet is received
Position packets are sent more frequently in response to steering
Command /showfuel (no/yes) allows remote car fuel load to be seen
More accurate transmission of fuel load from local to remote car
Most admin commands with parameter omitted report current value
Easier to set up LAN race: local IP address is shown on host screen
You can enter the local network computer name instead of IP address
FIX: Remote cars with worn tread could wrongly get a puncture
FIX: Car on pit speed limiter sent maximum packets per second
FIX: Stop-go penalty caused car to get stuck in custom pit stop
FIX: Remote car's tyre temperature over 200 appeared black (cold)
FIX: Remote tyre temperatures increased too slowly in skid or spin

InSim:

IS_CPP FOV can now be used in-car but not smoothed (0 = no change)
InSim NLP / MCI minimum time interval reduced to 10 ms (was 40 ms)
FIX: It was possible to miss IS_PSF packet after taking over car
FIX: STime in IS_PSF packet was wrong after car was taken over
FIX: Free view roll is now reported in InSim IS_CPP packet

CPU usage display:

In Graphics or Misc options (in-game) click car icon then 'P'
You can now see CPU usage for Physics, Draw, Prediction, etc.
The "Pred" line shows CPU usage for prediction of remote cars
Prediction time also shows up in an MPR if /mprlag is set

Support for live multiplayer replays:

Replay identified as live when starting to watch an unfinished MPR
Does not exit replay after fast forwarding to current time
Catch up to live position by clicking >| button
Skins can be downloaded while watching a live replay
Save replay while temp_mpr is being viewed - copy instead of rename
Start new mpr while temp_mpr is in use - tries temp_mpr_1 (up to 9)
/mprflush X to flush mpr to file every X seconds (0 = disable)
MPR / SPR are prevented from being named temp_mpr / temp_spr

VR:

Updated OpenVR to version 1.10.30
Improved timing of obtaining view each frame
New "Antialiasing" option to select 4x or 8x multisampling
New "Resolution adjustment" slider (also known as supersampling)
Names over cars could fade differently in each eye in Pimax headset
Virtual keyboard is shown at dialog height if no dialog is visible
Space bar VR click auto disabled when you type with real keyboard
FIX: Head tracking / mirrors wrong if car leaned with horizon lock
FIX: Free view FOV was wrong after entering VR in free view
FIX: Names above cars looked wrong in Pimax headsets
FIX: Some trees looked wrong in Pimax headsets

Skin downloads:

Faster skin downloads when joining server (and auto updater)
Slightly faster skin downloads when driver joins race in-game
FIX: Skin downloading could get stuck after a large header

MPR debug commands:

/mprlag X simulates online packet delay of X ms (+ no smoothing)
/mprsmooth X (0 or 1) to disable or enable input smoothing

Views:

Horizon lock now has a strength slider option
View filter time maximum value increased to 1 second
Improved key control (4/5/6/7) of free view field of view
Three screens are now assumed when aspect ratio is 4:1 (was 3:1)
Free view mode minimum field of view reduced from 10 to 2 degrees
FIX: Filtered view went wrong with low filter time + replay speedup

Graphics:

Car shadows now use anisotropic filtering to reduce shimmering
Increased distance for car subobjects to become invisible

Controls:

Gearshift debounce setting now applies to all controller buttons
Mouse X and Y sensitivity (in Axes tab) lower limit reduced to 0.5
FIX: Rare manual shift at high speed to 1st/rev during auto shift

Force Feedback:

New settings are available under Axes / FF in Options - Controls
FF Steps maximum value is now 10000 (the maximum in DirectInput)
FF Rate is now controlled by a user setting (25 / 50 / 100 Hz)

More telemetry data for OutSim:

Enable by setting the OutSim Opts value in cfg.txt
All data options can be switched on with the value ff
The new data is documented in a header file OutSimPack.h

Misc:

When LFS is set to close the reason is logged to deb.log file
Added a little more logging about D3D initialisation to deb.log
CAR.lfs scripts are reliably run when user car is spawned or reset
FIX: Memory leak related to threads (most often for skin download)
FIX: Replays from old Westhill before 2015 now marked as obsolete
FIX: Driver names ending with a lead byte could corrupt text
FIX: Issues with driver names ending with caret character


INSTALLATION:

A FULL version of LFS 0.6U must already be installed

To install the PATCH using the SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE:

1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
4) Now you can start LFS in the normal way

NOTE: You can see if the patch is correctly installed when you run
the program (LFS.exe). At the bottom of the entry screen: 0.6U25


DOWNLOADS:

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE 0.6U:
PATCH 0.6U TO 0.6U25 (SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE)
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_6U_TO_6U25.exe (1.8 MB)

FOR HOSTING ONLY:
DEDICATED HOST 0.6U25 (non-graphical version for hosting only):
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S3_DCON_6U25.zip (1.8 MB)

Last edited by Scawen, Sat 27 Feb 2021, 14:11.

In test patch U16 there are a few more messages logged about D3D initialisation. So we might get more of an idea how far it gets before the hang.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185

Test Patch U16. I'm expecting this to be the last compatible patch before the incompatible test.

Interface:

Key control (4/5/6/7) of free view FOV improved and reaches 2 deg
Prevented auto-repeat on block message and light switching keys

InSim:

IS_CPP FOV can now be used in-car but not smoothed (0 = no change)
IS_CPP Pos is now relative to "Centre view" not the user setting
FIX: It was possible to miss IS_PSF packet after taking over car
FIX: STime in IS_PSF packet was wrong after car was taken over
NOTE: for these fixes the new driver taking over must have U16

Misc:

Added a little more logging about D3D initialisation to deb.log

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185

Test Patch U16. I'm expecting this to be the last compatible patch before the incompatible test.

Interface:

Key control (4/5/6/7) of free view FOV improved and reaches 2 deg
Prevented auto-repeat on block message and light switching keys

InSim:

IS_CPP FOV can now be used in-car but not smoothed (0 = no change)
IS_CPP Pos is now relative to "Centre view" not the user setting
FIX: It was possible to miss IS_PSF packet after taking over car
FIX: STime in IS_PSF packet was wrong after car was taken over
NOTE: for these fixes the new driver taking over must have U16

Misc:

Added a little more logging about D3D initialisation to deb.log

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185

Wizard, please can you stop talking about this problem with your computer and your install of LFS. It has nothing to do with the test patch and I'm not going to be trying to improve that for you. This thread is for talking about changes in the test patch.

Quote from pajkul :

I'd just love if you could stop working on these relatively small things that distract the main development and focus on that instead.

Part of my job is to understand what is important and work on it. You haven't been following this thread or the test patch properly, or you wouldn't say that.

If I take 1 minute out of my several years of development, to enable road tyres on formula cars, it probably isn't going to be a really big deal. But to start enabling rallycross hotlap tables for formula cars would be kind of stupid. It's not up for discussion at all. Anyone else is welcome to create their own hotlap tables for formula cars doing rallycross on road tyres if they want to. Maybe it'll catch on, who knows? But LFS developers aren't going to do that.

If you actually look what has been going on, you would see that I've been working on a lot of important things to improve the online racing experience, that happens every day, right now. It's a few weeks of work, to make important improvements for everyone to use while they wait for the other graphical and physical updates. The drift lock and new tyre allowances are a couple of minutes each. Very little to do with what I have actually been working on.

What some people don't seem to realise is all these changes also go into the new development version. I spend almost no time at all working on things that don't improve all future versions of LFS.

Remember that any need for frame rate higher than 100 Hz was eliminated in test patch U7.

Quote from Scawen :

...

About the connection between visual frame rates and force feedback:

In the old system there was a reason to go for higher frame rates to get more immediate force feedback. But this is now controlled by these user settings and there should be no reason to go higher than 100 fps (LFS physics update rate).

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Do you have accepted decision about this?

I read through the whole thread a couple of days ago to check what people said. I've been working on the incompatible changes along with the compatible ones. So we aren't very far away now. I'm hoping that we can test incompatible changes next week.

On tyres and steering lock so far:

I've changed the tyre limits so that:

- Single seater racing cars can now use ROAD_SUPER tyres
- GTR cars can use ROAD_SUPER, ROAD_NORMAL, HYBRID and KNOBBLY tyres

I haven't tried the steering lock changes yet, so I can't say what will happen. I think I will first try increasing the limit to 60 degrees for the RWD cars, excluding single seaters, then look at each one to see if any problems come up. I don't plan to increase the steering lock for cars with driven front wheels as it's really impossible.

I wanted to start looking at this today before I replied, but something else I'm working on has taken longer than expected.

Yeah, there's only so much I can deal with. At some point I have to stop taking things on when the light at the end of the tunnel seems to be getting further and further away!

OK, some more updates in U15. Still a compatible version.

F12 pit instructions:

Pressure change with new tyre no longer counts as SETUP CHANGES
A new 'cancel' option beside the 'setup changes requested' line
Settings that will be adjusted are now shown in light red colour
FIX: rear tyre pressure was limited by front tyre pressure limits
FIX: symmetric pressure/camber request remained after pit stop

Multiplayer:

More accurate transmission of fuel load from local to remote car
Remote car fuel load is now shown in F12 if /showfuel is enabled
Rolling resistance included in catch-up phase of prediction
FIX: Remote cars with worn tread could wrongly get a puncture

Misc:

Auto-repeat key function reinstated (disabled in previous test)
MPR / SPR are now prevented from being named temp_mpr / temp_spr
Free view mode minimum field of view reduced from 10 to 2 degrees
InSim NLP / MCI minimum time interval reduced to 10 ms (was 40 ms)
Mouse X and Y sensitivity (in Axes tab) lower limit reduced to 0.5
FIX: Message MPR_BLANK sometimes displayed when watching live MPR

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185

OK, some more updates in U15. Still a compatible version.

F12 pit instructions:

Pressure change with new tyre no longer counts as SETUP CHANGES
A new 'cancel' option beside the 'setup changes requested' line
Settings that will be adjusted are now shown in light red colour
FIX: rear tyre pressure was limited by front tyre pressure limits
FIX: symmetric pressure/camber request remained after pit stop

Multiplayer:

More accurate transmission of fuel load from local to remote car
Remote car fuel load is now shown in F12 if /showfuel is enabled
Rolling resistance included in catch-up phase of prediction
FIX: Remote cars with worn tread could wrongly get a puncture

Misc:

Auto-repeat key function reinstated (disabled in previous test)
MPR / SPR are now prevented from being named temp_mpr / temp_spr
Free view mode minimum field of view reduced from 10 to 2 degrees
InSim NLP / MCI minimum time interval reduced to 10 ms (was 40 ms)
Mouse X and Y sensitivity (in Axes tab) lower limit reduced to 0.5
FIX: Message MPR_BLANK sometimes displayed when watching live MPR

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185

Quote from Eclipsed :

So the suggestion is that either switching back to assymetric it should return to previous settings or there should be some way to cancel requested setup changes.

I missed the final part of your suggestion yesterday but came to the same conclusion today.

It was an easy fix to cancel all requested changes in F12, because the unchanged setup is available in the current car setup. So the 'cancel' option will be in the next (compatible) test patch.

Quote from MandulAA :

About setup changes in pitstops, this thread might be related (I'm not sure): https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1960373#post1960373

Actually that is different - I fixed that one yesterday and that was just about the rear tyre pressure using front tyre limits. It will be in the next (compatible) test patch.

Quote from KevinRacer :

In bf1 I think I have encountered a similar bug. I guess "setup changes needed" remains as long as the setup after changes is different from the starting setup.

It's supposed to only say that if the requested setup changes are different from the current setup. Anyway I can reproduce it 100% (the symmetrical setup thing) so I'll be able to fix it.

Maybe I'd better reinstate auto-repeat!

By the way, I've been working on pit stops - a compatible change and an incompatible change. I found a bug that I can reproduce in the existing test patch. Is it a well-known bug?

I took FOX on FE1. Using default setup, do a lap and set front tyre pressure to be adjusted (leaving it symmetric). Enter pits, there is "setup changes" as expected and drive away. Now the bug is that "Setup changes requested" remains set although you can't see any changes requested. Next pit stop there are "setup changes" again although you haven't changed anything. I think it's related to the 'assymetric' setup (although the setup is set as symmetric so you can't see that).

Quote from Pasci :

Under certain circumstances, the outsourcing of AI drivers to the dedicated host would be a better solution than increasing the permitted number on the client side? It would be good if you could determine the "field size" and as soon as a real driver connects, the number of AIs is "dynamically" reduced (or increased if someone disconnects from the host).

AI on server would be good but our current DCon can't possibly do that, as it only has a very cut-down version of the tracks, not including the physical surfaces. It doesn't need them because it doesn't run physics. It is already possible with a full version of LFS running as the server but that requires a user name. A full version can run in 'dedicated' mode but currently runs in the same way as DCon. I think that option could be made to run physics but it's really beyond the scope of this minor update.

I only started this process to allow a wider range of settings. It's turned into a multiplayer prediction + various other things but I still want to get this done ASAP because there is a lot still to do in the development version.

Quote from THE WIZARD DK :

1. could this have had impact on the shifting thing?
2. i am using space bar with keyboard. will that be customizable?
or SPACE only?


also. i tried to go in single player mode.
with 21 cars (all types) and myself on track i still get those lagspike things at some times.
you asked me if i got that recently. it seems i do. patch u13. what can cause this then?

No, the packet sending rate due to speed limiter was only related to packets.

The space bar for VR click is not customisable and I don't have any plans to do so. This code was designed so that space bar when typing no longer interferes with VR click, for people with a VR headset.

I don't know why you have lags but I don't think it's related to this test patch. If it is to do with graphics card limitations (memory swapping) you could try lower texture resolution. Otherwise lags could be caused by other programs running on your computer.

Test Patch U14 is now available.

I've been working on things to improve the prediction but they are mainly incompatible, so not included in this test patch.
This patch contains some compatible updates while I continue trying to improve the prediction system.

Changes from 0.6U13 to 0.6U14:

Multiplayer:

Command /showfuel (no/yes) allows remote car fuel load to be seen
Most admin commands with parameter omitted report current value
FIX: Car on pit speed limiter sent maximum packets per second
FIX: Remote car's tyre temperature over 200 appeared black (cold)
FIX: Remote tyre temperatures increased too slowly in skid or spin

MPR debug commands:

/mprlag X simulates online packet delay of X ms (+ no smoothing)
/mprsmooth X (0 or 1) to disable or enable input smoothing

CPU usage display:

In Graphics or Misc options (in-game) click the car icon then 'P'
You can now see CPU usage for Physics, Draw, Prediction, etc.
The "Pred" line shows CPU usage for prediction of remote cars
Prediction time also shows up in an MPR if /mprlag is set

Support for live multiplayer replays:

Replay identified as live when starting to watch an unfinished MPR
Does not exit replay after fast forwarding to current time
Catch up to live position by clicking >| button
Skins can be downloaded while watching a live replay
Save replay while temp_mpr is being viewed - copy instead of rename
Start new mpr while temp_mpr is in use - tries temp_mpr_1 (up to 9)
/mprflush X to flush mpr to file every X seconds (0 = disable)

VR:

Virtual keyboard is shown at dialog height if no dialog is visible
Space bar VR click auto disabled when you type with real keyboard

Misc:

Increased distance for car subobjects to become invisible
FIX: Free view roll is now reported in InSim IS_CPP packet

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185

U14 is now available.

I've been working on things to improve the prediction but they are mainly incompatible, so not included in this test patch.
This patch contains some compatible updates while I continue trying to improve the prediction system.

Changes from 0.6U13 to 0.6U14:

Multiplayer:

Command /showfuel (no/yes) allows remote car fuel load to be seen
Most admin commands with parameter omitted report current value
FIX: Car on pit speed limiter sent maximum packets per second
FIX: Remote car's tyre temperature over 200 appeared black (cold)
FIX: Remote tyre temperatures increased too slowly in skid or spin

MPR debug commands:

/mprlag X simulates online packet delay of X ms (+ no smoothing)
/mprsmooth X (0 or 1) to disable or enable input smoothing

CPU usage display:

In Graphics or Misc options (in-game) click the car icon then 'P'
You can now see CPU usage for Physics, Draw, Prediction, etc.
The "Pred" line shows CPU usage for prediction of remote cars
Prediction time also shows up in an MPR if /mprlag is set

Support for live multiplayer replays:

Replay identified as live when starting to watch an unfinished MPR
Does not exit replay after fast forwarding to current time
Catch up to live position by clicking >| button
Skins can be downloaded while watching a live replay
Save replay while temp_mpr is being viewed - copy instead of rename
Start new mpr while temp_mpr is in use - tries temp_mpr_1 (up to 9)
/mprflush X to flush mpr to file every X seconds (0 = disable)

VR:

Virtual keyboard is shown at dialog height if no dialog is visible
Space bar VR click auto disabled when you type with real keyboard

Misc:

Increased distance for car subobjects to become invisible
FIX: Free view roll is now reported in InSim IS_CPP packet

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185

Thank you all for these results and observations.

It's hard to know how the CPU usage is really being affected by the prediction. I will look and see if I can add a CPU usage timer that can display CPU usage for Physics and Prediction separately. If I could make this visible on screen at the side, then we could get more of an idea how badly Turn One mayhem is affected by increased packet rate in conjunction with high ping.

The other thing is a prediction issue that seems worst with the BF1. I don't think it's anything unique about the BF1 - it's probably just the most extreme example. I get the feeling that it is not only related to speed. I think it may be something to do with tyre deflection. Suspension deflection is included in the position packet but lateral tyre deflection is not. So I think for the first frame of prediction, forces on the car are too small and it takes a couple of updates to build up the tyre forces. It's only a theory. Unfortunately it would need a larger position packet and that can't be done in a compatible version but I'll have a look. We want to do an incompatible version anyway but we're a few days from that as there are still compatible updates to do. Anyway I can test locally at first.

I think we also need an option to watch MPRs without the steering smoothing, so it's a better representation of what we see online. Don't know if I could add a bad ping simulation to it as well.

Quote from Degats :

Looking at several replays, it appears that the smoothing is still working properly when watching replays in U13 only if the car you're watching was also on U13, but not if they were on older versions.

That's a good observation. For some reason which I can't remember, the program does an estimate of when the next packet will arrive. U13 uses the U13 next packet time calculation so that explains why the U12 ones move too quickly then stop. I'm not sure why it was easier to do it that way rather than using a real packet time.

Thanks, maybe you can suggest they try the U13 test patch if possible?

Most benefits will come from the use of the patch.

DCon only allows the max pps up to 12 but most of the time that doesn't affect anything.

Quote from nexttime :

So your own car in a mpr is always 6pps even if the server is set to 4 or something? Or 12 in this case. Because in some of my own replays (6pps version) I see a lot of glitches sometimes on my car.

How it works is: Any MPR stores all the network packets that are sent (as long as they are received).

So if there is a good connection, an MPR stored on player A's computer should look identical to the MPR stored on player B's computer. As you can see in kagurazakayukari's video, the MPR from both computers is mostly identical, other than a few points where some packets got lost.

So you can actually test the effect of the packet rate by saving an MPR locally.

But there are two things different in an MPR:

- In an MPR, prediction time is only the time between two packets. Live online prediction time is the time between two packets plus the delay between the packet being sent on the driver's PC and received on the observer's PC.

- In an MPR, inputs can be smoothed between one packet and the next which helps make the prediction a bit better.

Quote from nexttime :

So your own car in a mpr is always 6pps even if the server is set to 4 or something? Or 12 in this case. Because in some of my own replays (6pps version) I see a lot of glitches sometimes on my car.

No, that's not how it works.

Quote from nexttime :

In LFS everybody has that glitch regardless of their ping, either always or somewhere on the track.

Well I released a patch yesterday that should have improved that quite a bit for people with good ping. I haven't had a lot of feedback about the results yet.


EDIT: That's not a complaint - it's not an easy thing to test so may take time. And the person who downloads the test patch isn't the one who will see the results. It's the other people who should see their car glitching less. Best results are when driver and observer both have the new version, because the steering glitch reduction is at both ends (that is a separate feature from the extra packets).

One possible test would be to observe two people with equally good ping, driving on a flat surface, maybe slaloming gently left to right in sync with each other, in the same car. One driver has U13 and the other driver has U12 or earlier. The observer should have the new version. The result of the test should be visible in the MPR.

Actually there doesn't really need to be a live observer, only the two drivers. The 'observer' could be anyone who watches the MPR later.

Last edited by Scawen, Tue 12 Jan 2021, 20:37.

The Wizard DK: I've moved your posts about shifting to a new thread in technical assistance because it's not related to the test patch.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/94955